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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.23 17:09:40 -
[1] - Quote
My proposal, which I mentioned in another thread, is to have "cold storage" by landing your ships and modules on the surface of a planet (terrestrial, barren, ice) or moon. The structure could be a Space Elevator with some capacity at the top (maybe 500,000m3 of moored ships and 10,000m3 of modules/materials), unlimited capacity on the surface, and there could be a 10 minute delay to move things between the accessible structure and the planet surface. When the Space Elevator is destroyed or conquered, you no longer have access to the stuff on the surface... but it's still there and can one day be recovered.
This solution allows avoids the problem of players having unlimited, invulnerable inventory that can be accessed immediately -- so there's no "station games" here. You can't just dock, switch ships, undock, etc, because of the 10 minute delay to retrieve stuff from the surface. But it does allow dedicated industrialists to bring in massive quantities of materials to invest in nullsec, and it does solve the problem of what to do when real life takes you away from EVE for a few weeks or months or years. When the new structures are implemented, existing nullsec assets for inactive players could simply be transferred to planetary surfaces. While there, they could not be bought/sold/traded, so you'll have to put assets at real risk (by moving them to a trade hub structure) if you want to sell them.
This would also create a strategic element because if limited to planets, it would make those three planet types (barren, temperate, ice) very important locations for structures. This would in turn determine how many stations make sense in a given system, where the enemy is likely to have his most valuable assets, and which ones are worth fighting for. |
Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:32:58 -
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Alexis Nightwish wrote:What kind of culture does nullsec have when people lose their minds over a mechanic in which you get to keep all your stuff when you lose?
It's not about "when you lose", it's about when you're not in game at all. Game designers have to balance "realism" within the game universe with the fact that people don't really live in the virtual world. That's why POS's have reinforcement timers -- the attackers have the advantage of choosing the time of attack at a time when the defenders may not even be logged in, so reinforcement allows the defenders to try to choose the dime of defense. People leave stuff in outposts not because they're afraid of permaloss, but because they're going to log out. (People who don't like permaloss don't play EVE beyond the trial.) Under the new outpost destruction mechanics, you're essentially saying that if someone is logged out for more than 48 hours or so, they're going to lose all of their assets and be required to bring a freighter into an active war zone in order to recover them. That's absolutely incompatible with most people who have real lives, children, jobs, not to mention those who serve in the military.
EDIT: Maybe CCP wants to change the way people play the game, such that nobody will keep more than one ship at a time, people will be nomadic and specialize instead of switching ships for different jobs. If that's their intention, I really wish they'd say so. |
Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.24 22:27:23 -
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Alexis Nightwish wrote:Aren't the mechanics of the tug of war, freeport, and a 48 hour RF + the time it takes to capture command nodes enough for most players?
That's not what we're discussing. This is a discussion of the new structures CCP is proposing to replace outposts and POS's, all of which will be destructible.
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.25 17:15:43 -
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Alexis Nightwish wrote:To me, this looks like a lot of time to move some or all of your assets out, even if you can't play 23/7.
To me it looks like 3 or 4 days. So if I'm a guy who plays only on the weekend, I could come back every time to a pod floating in space with all my assets gone. Nevermind if I take a few weeks or months off from the game. |
Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.25 17:22:03 -
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Masao Kurata wrote:EDIT: Well I should've read the whole thread, the secure/insecure split was suggested earlier, although not with the ready for use mechanic that I'm suggesting, and later there's an inaccessible protected mode mentioned, although for the entire hangar. I like my solution best of course but I'm biased.
It's a lot like my "space elevator" idea -- secure items on planet surface, insecure items at the orbital structure, and some substantial delay involved in moving assets between the two. My idea also has the benefit of giving the DUST players something to see on the horizon.
Quote:Say, lieutenant, what's that potato-shaped lump over there with the camo webbing over it?
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.26 15:55:22 -
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Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
They want to make all stations destructable.
Inevitably they will back off from this, and keep NPC stations in lowsec and highsec. So guess where everybody's going to move their stuff. |
Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.26 20:17:55 -
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oohthey ioh wrote:Phig Neutron wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
They want to make all stations destructable. Inevitably they will back off from this, and keep NPC stations in lowsec and highsec. So guess where everybody's going to move their stuff. I think they are leaving null sec stations as non destructible, just outpost and pos's.
"Outpost" means "Station" in the current EVE. They are talking about transforming them into destructible structures. They have hinted at wanting to do this in highsec and nullsec, too. (I think they'll back off from this, though.) |
Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.27 15:31:41 -
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w1ndstrike wrote:Phig Neutron wrote:oohthey ioh wrote:Phig Neutron wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
They want to make all stations destructable. Inevitably they will back off from this, and keep NPC stations in lowsec and highsec. So guess where everybody's going to move their stuff. I think they are leaving null sec stations as non destructible, just outpost and pos's. "Outpost" means "Station" in the current EVE. They are talking about transforming them into destructible structures. They have hinted at wanting to do this in highsec and nullsec, too. (I think they'll back off from this, though.) there are two types of structures that most people in eve call stations right now, nullsec player-built outposts, and true stations that have existed since the game was created. currently the development team have indicated they would like to make changes that would render the player-built outposts only destructible, along with the new structures that will replace both outposts and POSes
YOU see a difference between "outposts" and "stations" but I don't see any indication that the developers see "stations" as sacred and untouchable while they're re-designing "outposts". I'm pretty sure that whatever changes they're proposing are intended to affect both of them alike.
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.27 15:35:01 -
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Serendipity Lost wrote:I'm seeing a couple of 1000 eve players that really haven't embraced the core concept of loss that is eve.
Another high school kid that doesn't grasp the concept that there is life outside of EVE. If the game demands a 24 hour commitment, it will lose most of its players. Permanent loss of assets is a great mechanic when you are actually playing the game, not when it means you can't log out for a family vacation.
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.27 20:37:52 -
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oohthey ioh wrote:Phig Neutron wrote:
YOU see a difference between "outposts" and "stations" but I don't see any indication that the developers see "stations" as sacred and untouchable while they're re-designing "outposts". I'm pretty sure that whatever changes they're proposing are intended to affect both of them alike.
During the steam they made it clear you keep your items so people use the player made structures over stations and has CCP has been referring to outpost and stations separately. plus there are lores be hide some stations.
Quoting in order to boggle future grammarian-archaeologists.
Dev blog states:
Quote:There are currently five different types of structures available in the game, each with a unique purpose, which we shall quickly review now.
And then enumerates them: deployables, POCO, POS, sov structures, and Outposts. No distinction is made between player-built or NPC-owned outposts.
Then under the heading "Keep Calm, Your Stuff is Safe" it says "Not removing existing structures without transition time." In other words, existing structures will be removed.
I don't know what some dev might have said at Fanfest while drunk, but this is what they've written down. There is every indication that they are thinking about removing all stations and going over to the new system, albeit gradually. |
Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.03.27 20:43:48 -
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Metal Icarus wrote:If you go on vacation without dealing with your assets in space, that's like leaving your car at an airport parking lot unlocked for your whole vacation. I hear that is not a very smart thing to do.
We're not talking about "assets in space". We're talking about assets in stations.
How do you "deal with your assets" in the station? Only thing I can think you mean is that we have to sell everything we own before logging out for more than a couple days. So the only "safe asset" is ISK.
But why should ISK be safe? It's stored in a bank or something, right? If we're going to take this stupid idea to its logical conclusion, shouldn't we also make player wallets destructable? Or maybe your account is stored in one of those NPC bank stations (Garoun Investment Bank etc), and when it's blown up you should lose everything. That's the true spirit of EVE or something isn't it? Only a carebear would oppose this idea, right?
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:58:27 -
[12] - Quote
Baljos Arnjak wrote:But, to be honest, that's a risk you take when you live in Null. You can lose access to your stuff at any time and it's just a cost of living there. If you don't want to lose your stuff while unsubbed, move it to empire space.
You never actually "lose access to your stuff", you just lose docking rights. You can always sell the stuff by contract (and I think some skills allow you to set up market sell orders? maybe?) so it's fairly simple to exchange your old stuff for the same type of stuff elsewhere. I don't think this has prevented people from coming back to the game, much.
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